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Mer 04 Nov 2015 07:36

 Re: Disparition d'un avion de Kogalymavia au-dessus du Sinaï
MessagePosté: Mer 04 Nov 2015 07:36 
Hors ligne

Inscription: Mar 12 Juil 2011 05:43
Bonjour a tous

J'imagine que l'on saura a un moment donne qu'est-ce qui a cause le crash ( je l'espere) mais qq chose m'intrigue au dela des differents points de vue (theorie du complot ou pas complot etc) :

Les "experts" , sur forum, a la tele ou dans les journaux, defendent tout de suite avec force le fait que ce n'est pas possible que ISIS ait la capacite d'envoyer une Rocket a 10 000m...
Cela me laisse dubitatif .. comme si ce n'etait pas arrive en Ukraine .. comme si tous ces experts savent tres bien comment ISIS est equipe ..
Ce dernier point est etrange, je m'explique :
- envoyer un missile a cette altitude est possible depuis des decennies par n'importe quel etat avec un minimum de defense.
- l'ISIS tient tout de meme (c'est un euphemisme) face a la syrie (qui est cense avoir une armee professionelle), l'irak (suppose aide par les USA et l'europe) ainsi que le Hezbollah et l'iran.
On ne va pas me faire croire que c'est avec des AK-47, des Toyota jeep, et des lance roquettes qui ne depassent pas 3km...
- Des armes dans la regions il y en a partout et venant de Lybie, USA( en Irak pour les rebelles), potentiellement arabie saoudite etc. Bref on ne sait pas qui a quoi et qui n'a pas quoi.

Ce qui m'intrigue c'est cette insistance des experts a affirmer que ce n'est pas possible, en 2015 ou l'on parle d'aller sur Mars, qu'un groupe terroriste qui combat depuis 4 ans dans la region n'a pas pu mettre la main sur une technologie qui a peut etre plus de 50 ans ...

Est-ce qu'il n'y aurait pas un consensus un peu implicite (pas forcement organise, hein) parmis les experts, media, authorites pour ne pas que les gens paniquent ... ? Car en fait il n'est pas du tout impossible pour une personne mal intentionnee de se procurer un lance roquette qui puisse toucher un avion de ligne ( fort signature tout de meme, pas tres furtif).
D'ailleurs je remarque souvent l'utilisation de la figure de style (qui permet de ne rien affirmer ou infirmer) : "Rien ne prouve que les terroristes ont la capacite de mener etc... etc.." mais rien ne prouve le contraire non plus.

Merci pour les avis eclaires sur la question! Peut-etre que je me trompe et viser un avion de ligne est aussi complexe qu'envoyer qq un sur Mars ( j'exagere .. je sais) .. mais bon cet acharnement d'experts me fait douter justement.


  
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Mer 04 Nov 2015 07:51

 Re: Disparition d'un avion de Kogalymavia au-dessus du Sinaï
MessagePosté: Mer 04 Nov 2015 07:51 
Hors ligne
Gonfleur d'Hélice
Gonfleur d'Hélice

Inscription: Lun 07 Oct 2013 23:34
cildword a écrit:
Citation:
Reuters rapporte que l'avion a reçu un certificat de navigabilité en début année, selon la réglementation en Irlande où l'avion a été enregistrée.

L'Autorité de l'aviation irlandaise dit que l'avion a été enregistrée en Irlande pour Willmington Trust SP Services (Dublin) Ltd et a été loué à la compagnie aérienne russe Kogalymavia.

"L'Autorité de l'aviation irlandaise (IAA) a procédé à une révision annuelle des certifications de l'avion, à l'appui il a reçu son certificat annuel de navigabilité à la suite du processus de renouvellement et toutes les certifications étaient satisfaisantes sur ce point", a déclaré le porte-parole.

En vertu des règles internationales, la Russie était responsable de tous les contrôles sur l'appareil.

L'agence de nouvelles RIA a rapporté que l'inspection du travail de Russie a déclaré que la compagnie aérienne Kogalymavia avait omis le paiement des salaires des employés durant deux mois.


c est inexact , c est l autorite du pays de l immatriculation, qui delivre le certificat de navigabilite qui est responsable et qui effectue les controles .
la Faa par exemple , va au mexique , controler certains avions qui sont sous immatriculation us , et sanctionne comme si cela etait une compagnie americaine ,( Volaris a recu une amende de 500 000 dollars car une operation de maintenance a ete effectuee sur un avion par 3 personnes qui ne possedait pas les qualifications necessaires.

L avion metrojet est donc, a priori entretenu conformement aux regles europeennes par des mecaniciens , ateliers , pilotes agrees par l autorite europeenne.

D apres le proprietaire , l avion etait en excellent etat ,( il l a pilote lui meme recemment)et avait subi un gros check en 2013 ,avec recherches de criques .) la duree depuis ce controle , n est pas assez importante pour un developpement de criques qui aurait pu amener a cet incident .

Si l avion a recu un renouvellement de certificat de navigabilite . Ce n est pas une simple affaire de paperasse . Son historique de maintenance a ete epluche par l autorite irlandaise avant de renouveller
le certificat.


erreur de ma part , il y a un accord entre irlande et l urss pour confier les controles des avions irlandais operes par des compagnies russes en 2002 .


  
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Mer 04 Nov 2015 08:16

 Re: Disparition d'un avion de Kogalymavia au-dessus du Sinaï
MessagePosté: Mer 04 Nov 2015 08:16 
Hors ligne
Gonfleur d'Hélice
Gonfleur d'Hélice

Inscription: Lun 07 Oct 2013 23:34
d apres bloomberg , flight radar aurait retravailles ses datas et aurait fourni de nouvelles indications,
Nouvelles lectures sont plus compatibles avec une rupture soudaine

[i]L'avion russe qui est écrasé samedi en Egypte a ralenti soudainement et plonge alors à la Terre à 300 miles (483 kilomètres) par heure, selon les données révisées de ses derniers moments capturés par le site de vol de suivi Flightradar24.
Le Metrojet Airbus A321 transportant Group SE 224 personnes est passé de 31.000 pieds à 26.000 pieds dans les 26 dernières secondes, selon les transmissions finales de son transpondeur radio communication de l'information sur le sol.

Les nouvelles données est conforme aux rapports de responsables égyptiens et russes, qui a dit que l'avion est venu en dehors car il volait à l'altitude de croisière de Charm el-Cheikh à Saint-Pétersbourg. Il indique également que la direction de Voyage de l'avion a été oscille d'un côté à l'autre, ce qui se produirait si elle venait à part.
Toutes les 224 personnes à bord du Metrojet, volant de Charm el-Cheikh à Saint-Pétersbourg, est mort quand il descendit samedi.

"Les informations FightRadar24sont mieux, mais il est pas encore tout ce que nous pouvons en tirer des conclusions", a déclaré John Cox, chef de la direction du basées à Washington Systèmes d'Exploitation Sécurité, consultant en aviation.
Plusieurs scénarios possibles pour la dissolution de l'avion demeurent, y compris une bombe ou d'une défaillance structurale, dit Cox. Au moins des réponses partielles devraient bientôt venir, en tant que fonctionnaires en Egypte examiner deux dispositifs d'enregistrement de l'accident à l'épreuve de l'avion et les équipes ont une chance d'inspecter l'épave, at-il dit.
Vol Ralentissement
L'avion a chuté progressivement au début, puis plus rapidement que sa vitesse avant ralenti, selon les nouvelles données. Par la dernière transmission, il avançait à seulement 54 miles (87 kilomètres) à l'heure, bien en dessous de la vitesse normale de vol.
Les données brutes de l'avion signalé initialement par Flightradar24 suggéré l'avion a été tronçonnage de haut en bas dans ses dernières secondes. La firme de suivi de vol indique que l'information d'altitude semble être peu fiables.
L'information récente publiée mardi repose sur des données de satellite de positionnement global que l'avion a également transmis, que l'entreprise croit être plus précis, selon une annonce sur son site Internet.
Qu'est-il arrivé à bord de l'avion russe est apparu pour commencer à 06h13, heure locale, lorsque ce qui avait été une ascension régulière mis tout à coup une descente, selon les données.
Changement de données
"Nous voyons un changement dans les données" à ce moment, Ian Petchenik, un porte-parole Flightradar24, a déclaré dans une interview. "Mais nous avons aucune information sur la cause de ce changement."
Dans les secondes après que les lectures du plan engendré par la pression de l'air commencent à devenir suspect, selon la compagnie. Le plan semble changer également sa position, se tournant de plus de 20 degrés vers la droite, puis de nouveau sur son cap nord-ouest d'origine, si les données peuvent être crues.


l

d autres parts, d apres les experts , les mouvements d un cote a l autre , exclue que l avion soit casse ce moment,




flight radar 24 sur son blog , a fourni , il y a 13 heures ,les nouvelles donnees sur son blog mais je n arrive pas a y acceder http://www.flightradar24.com/blog/metrojet-9268-extended-mode-s-data-decoded/

si quelqu un a une meilleure connection, il peut peut etre les mettre en ligne.


  
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Mer 04 Nov 2015 08:41

 Re: Disparition d'un avion de Kogalymavia au-dessus du Sinaï
MessagePosté: Mer 04 Nov 2015 08:41 
Hors ligne
Principicule de Taxiway
Principicule de Taxiway

Inscription: Dim 29 Nov 2009 23:53
cildword a écrit:
flight radar 24 sur son blog , a fourni , il y a 13 heures ,les nouvelles donnees sur son blog mais je n arrive pas a y acceder http://www.flightradar24.com/blog/metrojet-9268-extended-mode-s-data-decoded/

si quelqu un a une meilleure connection, il peut peut etre les mettre en ligne.


Voici

Partie dernières minutes du vol

time,hex,lat,lon,altitude,squawk,callsign,vspeed,track,groundspeed,tas,qnh,mcp_alt,precision,gps_altitude,oat

04:12:31Z.040,4ca9bf,30.072653,34.217798,30475,7327,KGL9268,640,336.3,405,446,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:31Z.248,4ca9bf,30.072653,34.217798,30475,7327,KGL9268,640,336.3,405,446,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:31Z.498,4ca9bf,30.07349,34.217358,30475,7327,KGL9268,640,336.3,405,446,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:31Z.668,4ca9bf,30.07349,34.217358,30475,7327,KGL9268,640,336.3,405,446,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:31Z.718,4ca9bf,30.07349,34.217358,30475,7327,KGL9268,640,336.3,405,446,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:32Z.048,4ca9bf,30.074432,34.216865,30475,7327,KGL9268,640,336.3,405,446,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:32Z.098,4ca9bf,30.074432,34.216865,30475,7327,KGL9268,640,336.3,405,446,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:32Z.146,4ca9bf,30.074432,34.216865,30500,7327,KGL9268,640,336.3,405,446,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:32Z.160,4ca9bf,30.074432,34.216865,30500,7327,KGL9268,640,336.3,405,446,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:32Z.458,4ca9bf,30.075165,34.216542,30500,7327,KGL9268,640,336.3,405,446,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:32Z.498,4ca9bf,30.075165,34.216542,30500,7327,KGL9268,640,336.3,405,446,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:32Z.757,4ca9bf,30.075165,34.216542,30500,7327,KGL9268,640,336.3,405,446,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:32Z.918,4ca9bf,30.075958,34.21615,30500,7327,KGL9268,640,336.3,405,446,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:32Z.968,4ca9bf,30.075958,34.21615,30500,7327,KGL9268,640,336.3,405,446,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:33Z.019,4ca9bf,30.075958,34.21615,30500,7327,KGL9268,640,336.3,405,446,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:33Z.156,4ca9bf,30.075958,34.21615,30500,7327,KGL9268,640,336.3,405,446,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:33Z.408,4ca9bf,30.076796,34.21571,30500,7327,KGL9268,640,336.3,405,446,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:33Z.438,4ca9bf,30.076796,34.21571,30500,7327,KGL9268,640,336.3,405,446,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:33Z.758,4ca9bf,30.076796,34.21571,30500,7327,KGL9268,640,336.3,405,446,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:33Z.780,4ca9bf,30.076796,34.21571,30500,7327,KGL9268,640,336.3,405,446,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:33Z.785,4ca9bf,30.076796,34.21571,30500,7327,KGL9268,640,336.3,405,446,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:33Z.791,4ca9bf,30.076796,34.21571,30500,7327,KGL9268,640,336.3,405,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:33Z.868,4ca9bf,30.076796,34.21571,30500,7327,KGL9268,640,336.3,405,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:33Z.948,4ca9bf,30.077728,34.215249,30500,7327,KGL9268,640,336.3,405,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:33Z.999,4ca9bf,30.077728,34.215249,30500,7327,KGL9268,640,336.3,405,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:34Z.288,4ca9bf,30.077728,34.215249,30500,7327,KGL9268,640,336.3,405,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:34Z.428,4ca9bf,30.078552,34.214819,30500,7327,KGL9268,640,336.3,405,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:34Z.718,4ca9bf,30.078552,34.214819,30500,7327,KGL9268,640,336.3,405,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:34Z.788,4ca9bf,30.078552,34.214819,30500,7327,KGL9268,640,336.3,405,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:34Z.898,4ca9bf,30.078552,34.214819,30500,7327,KGL9268,640,336.3,405,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:34Z.998,4ca9bf,30.079542,34.214282,30525,7327,KGL9268,640,336.3,405,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:35Z.118,4ca9bf,30.079542,34.214282,30525,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,405,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:35Z.237,4ca9bf,30.079542,34.214282,30525,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,405,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:35Z.408,4ca9bf,30.080241,34.213953,30525,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,405,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:35Z.474,4ca9bf,30.080241,34.213953,30525,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,405,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:35Z.708,4ca9bf,30.080241,34.213953,30525,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,405,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:35Z.848,4ca9bf,30.080978,34.21358,30525,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,405,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:35Z.908,4ca9bf,30.080978,34.21358,30525,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,405,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:36Z.278,4ca9bf,30.081757,34.213203,30525,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,405,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:36Z.288,4ca9bf,30.081757,34.213203,30525,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,405,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:36Z.690,4ca9bf,30.081757,34.213203,30525,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,405,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:36Z.758,4ca9bf,30.082581,34.212772,30525,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,405,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:36Z.828,4ca9bf,30.082581,34.212772,30525,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,405,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:36Z.868,4ca9bf,30.082581,34.212772,30525,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,405,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:37Z.268,4ca9bf,30.083453,34.212305,30550,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,405,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:37Z.318,4ca9bf,30.083453,34.212305,30550,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,405,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:37Z.752,4ca9bf,30.083453,34.212305,30550,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,405,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:37Z.758,4ca9bf,30.083453,34.212305,30550,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,405,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:37Z.808,4ca9bf,30.084366,34.211857,30550,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,405,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:37Z.828,4ca9bf,30.084366,34.211857,30550,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,405,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:37Z.918,4ca9bf,30.084366,34.211857,30550,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,405,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:38Z.308,4ca9bf,30.085236,34.211426,30550,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,405,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:38Z.368,4ca9bf,30.085236,34.211426,30550,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,405,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:38Z.818,4ca9bf,30.086106,34.210986,30550,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,405,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:38Z.868,4ca9bf,30.086106,34.210986,30550,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,406,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:39Z.088,4ca9bf,30.086106,34.210986,30550,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,406,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:39Z.288,4ca9bf,30.086944,34.210547,30575,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,406,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:39Z.398,4ca9bf,30.086944,34.210547,30575,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,406,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:39Z.738,4ca9bf,30.086944,34.210547,30575,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,406,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:39Z.859,4ca9bf,30.087891,34.210079,30575,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,406,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:39Z.898,4ca9bf,30.087891,34.210079,30575,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,406,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:39Z.908,4ca9bf,30.087891,34.210079,30575,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,406,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:39Z.982,4ca9bf,30.087891,34.210079,30575,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,406,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:40Z.368,4ca9bf,30.088806,34.209595,30575,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,406,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:40Z.438,4ca9bf,30.088806,34.209595,30575,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,406,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:40Z.868,4ca9bf,30.089644,34.209174,30575,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,406,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:40Z.958,4ca9bf,30.089644,34.209174,30575,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,406,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:40Z.968,4ca9bf,30.089644,34.209174,30575,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,406,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:41Z.063,4ca9bf,30.089644,34.209174,30575,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,406,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:41Z.418,4ca9bf,30.090575,34.208679,30600,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,406,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:41Z.486,4ca9bf,30.090575,34.208679,30600,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,406,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:41Z.539,4ca9bf,30.090575,34.208679,30600,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,406,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:41Z.719,4ca9bf,30.090575,34.208679,30600,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,406,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:41Z.724,4ca9bf,30.090575,34.208679,30600,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,406,448,1013,32000,4,,-39
04:12:41Z.819,4ca9bf,30.090575,34.208679,30600,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,406,448,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:12:41Z.825,4ca9bf,30.090575,34.208679,30600,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,406,448,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:12:41Z.832,4ca9bf,30.090575,34.208679,30600,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,406,448,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:12:41Z.836,4ca9bf,30.090575,34.208679,30600,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,406,448,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:12:41Z.866,4ca9bf,30.090575,34.208679,30600,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,406,448,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:12:41Z.999,4ca9bf,30.091599,34.208195,30600,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,406,448,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:12:42Z.009,4ca9bf,30.091599,34.208195,30600,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,406,448,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:12:42Z.539,4ca9bf,30.092514,34.20771,30600,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,406,448,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:12:42Z.589,4ca9bf,30.092514,34.20771,30600,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,406,448,1013,32000,4,,-42
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04:12:43Z.029,4ca9bf,30.092514,34.20771,30600,7327,KGL9268,640,336.2,406,448,1013,32000,4,,-42
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04:13:05Z.941,4ca9bf,30.132146,34.187531,30825,7327,KGL9268,512,336.1,406,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
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04:13:07Z.541,4ca9bf,30.134986,34.186047,30825,7327,KGL9268,512,336.1,406,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
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04:13:07Z.826,4ca9bf,30.135818,34.185629,30850,7327,KGL9268,512,336.1,406,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:07Z.941,4ca9bf,30.135818,34.185629,30850,7327,KGL9268,512,336.1,406,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:08Z.001,4ca9bf,30.135818,34.185629,30850,7327,KGL9268,512,336.1,406,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:08Z.051,4ca9bf,30.136551,34.185252,30850,7327,KGL9268,512,336.1,406,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:08Z.471,4ca9bf,30.137283,34.184875,30850,7327,KGL9268,512,336.1,406,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:08Z.501,4ca9bf,30.137283,34.184875,30850,7327,KGL9268,512,336.1,406,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:08Z.801,4ca9bf,30.137283,34.184875,30850,7327,KGL9268,512,336.1,406,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:08Z.901,4ca9bf,30.138012,34.184509,30850,7327,KGL9268,512,336.1,406,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:08Z.911,4ca9bf,30.138012,34.184509,30850,7327,KGL9268,512,336.1,406,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:09Z.301,4ca9bf,30.13871,34.18418,30850,7327,KGL9268,512,336.1,406,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:09Z.431,4ca9bf,30.13871,34.18418,30850,7327,KGL9268,512,336.1,406,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:09Z.521,4ca9bf,30.13871,34.18418,30850,7327,KGL9268,512,336.1,406,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:09Z.526,4ca9bf,30.13871,34.18418,30850,7327,KGL9268,512,336.1,406,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:09Z.532,4ca9bf,30.13871,34.18418,30850,7327,KGL9268,512,336.1,406,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:09Z.537,4ca9bf,30.13871,34.18418,30850,7327,KGL9268,512,336.1,406,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:09Z.741,4ca9bf,30.13871,34.18418,30850,7327,KGL9268,512,336.1,406,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:09Z.771,4ca9bf,30.139526,34.183745,30850,7327,KGL9268,512,336.1,406,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:09Z.941,4ca9bf,30.139526,34.183745,30850,7327,KGL9268,512,336.1,406,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:09Z.944,4ca9bf,30.139526,34.183745,30850,7327,KGL9268,512,336.1,406,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:09Z.981,4ca9bf,30.139526,34.183745,30850,7327,KGL9268,512,336.1,406,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:10Z.241,4ca9bf,30.140305,34.183314,30875,7327,KGL9268,512,336.1,406,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:10Z.351,4ca9bf,30.140305,34.183314,30875,7327,KGL9268,512,336.1,406,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:10Z.392,4ca9bf,30.140305,34.183314,30875,7327,KGL9268,512,336.1,406,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:10Z.671,4ca9bf,30.141083,34.182937,30875,7327,KGL9268,512,336.1,406,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:10Z.931,4ca9bf,30.141083,34.182937,30875,7327,KGL9268,512,336,407,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:11Z.091,4ca9bf,30.141783,34.182587,30875,7327,KGL9268,512,336,407,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:11Z.161,4ca9bf,30.141783,34.182587,30875,7327,KGL9268,512,336,407,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:11Z.371,4ca9bf,30.141783,34.182587,30875,7327,KGL9268,512,336,407,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:11Z.507,4ca9bf,30.141783,34.182587,30875,7327,KGL9268,512,336,407,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:11Z.521,4ca9bf,30.142527,34.182202,30875,7327,KGL9268,512,336,407,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:11Z.861,4ca9bf,30.142527,34.182202,30875,7327,KGL9268,512,336,407,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:11Z.921,4ca9bf,30.143234,34.18186,30875,7327,KGL9268,512,336,407,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:12Z.201,4ca9bf,30.143234,34.18186,30875,7327,KGL9268,512,336,407,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:12Z.441,4ca9bf,30.143234,34.18186,30875,7327,KGL9268,512,336,407,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:12Z.511,4ca9bf,30.144241,34.181321,30875,7327,KGL9268,512,336,407,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:12Z.861,4ca9bf,30.144241,34.181321,30875,7327,KGL9268,576,336,408,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:13Z.091,4ca9bf,30.145227,34.180829,30900,7327,KGL9268,576,336,408,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:13Z.197,4ca9bf,30.145227,34.180829,30900,7327,KGL9268,576,336,408,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:13Z.321,4ca9bf,30.145227,34.180829,30900,7327,KGL9268,576,336,408,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:13Z.341,4ca9bf,30.145227,34.180829,30900,7327,KGL9268,576,336,408,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:13Z.489,4ca9bf,30.145227,34.180829,30925,7327,KGL9268,576,336,408,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:13Z.494,4ca9bf,30.145227,34.180829,30925,7327,KGL9268,576,336,408,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:13Z.671,4ca9bf,30.146252,34.18028,30675,7327,KGL9268,576,336,408,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:13Z.872,4ca9bf,30.146252,34.18028,30675,7327,KGL9268,576,336,408,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:14Z.121,4ca9bf,30.147034,34.179867,30775,7327,KGL9268,576,336,408,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:14Z.341,4ca9bf,30.147034,34.179867,30775,7327,KGL9268,576,336,408,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:14Z.421,4ca9bf,30.147034,34.179867,30775,7327,KGL9268,576,336,408,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:14Z.631,4ca9bf,30.147903,34.179436,30750,7327,KGL9268,576,336,408,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:14Z.791,4ca9bf,30.147903,34.179436,30750,7327,KGL9268,576,336,408,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:14Z.861,4ca9bf,30.147903,34.179436,30750,7327,KGL9268,-320,335.9,408,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:15Z.171,4ca9bf,30.148859,34.178961,31100,7327,KGL9268,-320,335.9,408,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:15Z.291,4ca9bf,30.148859,34.178961,31100,7327,KGL9268,-320,335.9,408,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:15Z.412,4ca9bf,30.148859,34.178961,31275,7327,KGL9268,-320,335.9,408,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:15Z.451,4ca9bf,30.148859,34.178961,31275,7327,KGL9268,-320,335.9,408,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:15Z.671,4ca9bf,30.149689,34.178521,31700,7327,KGL9268,-320,335.9,408,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:15Z.881,4ca9bf,30.149689,34.178521,31700,7327,KGL9268,-3584,335.3,404,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:15Z.913,4ca9bf,30.149689,34.178521,31700,7327,KGL9268,-3584,335.3,404,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:15Z.928,4ca9bf,30.149689,34.178521,32200,7327,KGL9268,-3584,335.3,404,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:15Z.939,4ca9bf,30.149689,34.178521,32200,7327,KGL9268,-3584,335.3,404,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:15Z.947,4ca9bf,30.149689,34.178521,32325,7327,KGL9268,-3584,335.3,404,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:15Z.957,4ca9bf,30.149689,34.178521,32325,7327,KGL9268,-3584,335.3,404,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:16Z.201,4ca9bf,30.150604,34.178036,33500,7327,KGL9268,-3584,335.3,404,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:16Z.511,4ca9bf,30.150604,34.178036,33500,7327,KGL9268,-3584,335.3,404,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:16Z.992,4ca9bf,30.150604,34.178036,33500,7327,KGL9268,-5760,333.2,398,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:17Z.241,4ca9bf,30.152303,34.176984,33200,7327,KGL9268,-5760,333.2,398,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:17Z.463,4ca9bf,30.152303,34.176984,34450,7327,KGL9268,-5760,333.2,398,450,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:17Z.468,4ca9bf,30.152303,34.176984,34450,7327,KGL9268,-5760,333.2,398,186,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:17Z.474,4ca9bf,30.152303,34.176984,34450,7327,KGL9268,-5760,333.2,398,186,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:17Z.500,4ca9bf,30.152303,34.176984,34450,7327,KGL9268,-5760,333.2,398,186,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:17Z.561,4ca9bf,30.152303,34.176984,34450,7327,KGL9268,-5760,333.2,398,186,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:17Z.681,4ca9bf,30.152303,34.176984,34450,7327,KGL9268,-5760,333.2,398,186,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:17Z.761,4ca9bf,30.152985,34.176636,30975,7327,KGL9268,-5760,333.2,398,186,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:18Z.062,4ca9bf,30.152985,34.176636,30975,7327,KGL9268,-8384,333.7,347,186,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:18Z.206,4ca9bf,30.152985,34.176636,30300,7327,KGL9268,-8384,333.7,347,186,1013,32000,4,,-42
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04:13:18Z.752,4ca9bf,30.153809,34.176151,29750,7327,KGL9268,-8384,333.7,347,186,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:19Z.722,4ca9bf,30.153809,34.176151,29750,7327,KGL9268,-3904,335.2,342,186,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:19Z.792,4ca9bf,30.153809,34.176151,29750,7327,KGL9268,-3904,335.2,342,186,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:19Z.822,4ca9bf,30.155777,34.17502,33275,7327,KGL9268,-3904,335.2,342,186,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:20Z.252,4ca9bf,30.155777,34.17502,33275,7327,KGL9268,-5696,332.2,296,186,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:20Z.432,4ca9bf,30.155777,34.17502,32350,7327,KGL9268,-5696,332.2,296,186,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:20Z.612,4ca9bf,30.155777,34.17502,32350,7327,KGL9268,-5696,332.2,296,186,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:20Z.722,4ca9bf,30.156784,34.174428,30650,7327,KGL9268,-5696,332.2,296,186,1013,32000,4,,-42
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04:13:21Z.182,4ca9bf,30.156784,34.174428,30650,7327,KGL9268,-5952,332.9,263,186,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:21Z.432,4ca9bf,30.156784,34.174428,32900,7327,KGL9268,-5952,332.9,263,186,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:21Z.682,4ca9bf,30.156784,34.174428,32900,7327,KGL9268,-5952,332.9,263,186,1013,32000,4,,-42
04:13:21Z.752,4ca9bf,30.157936,34.173962,29575,7327,KGL9268,-5952,332.9,263,186,1013,32000,2,,-42
04:13:21Z.928,4ca9bf,30.157936,34.173962,30625,7327,KGL9268,-5952,332.9,263,186,1013,32000,2,,-42
04:13:21Z.949,4ca9bf,30.157936,34.173962,31350,7327,KGL9268,-5952,332.9,263,186,1013,32000,2,,-42
04:13:22Z.702,4ca9bf,30.159027,34.173674,30075,7327,KGL9268,-5952,332.9,263,186,1013,32000,2,,-42
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04:13:23Z.510,4ca9bf,30.159659,34.173578,32450,7327,KGL9268,-11840,351.4,246,186,1013,32000,2,,-42
04:13:23Z.525,4ca9bf,30.159659,34.173578,32450,7327,KGL9268,-11840,351.4,246,186,1013,32000,2,,-42
04:13:23Z.712,4ca9bf,30.159007,34.173688,33300,7327,KGL9268,-11840,351.4,246,186,1013,32000,2,,-42
04:13:23Z.722,4ca9bf,30.159007,34.173688,33300,7327,KGL9268,-11840,351.4,246,186,1013,32000,2,,-42
04:13:24Z.172,4ca9bf,30.159531,34.17362,32850,7327,KGL9268,-11840,351.4,246,186,1013,32000,2,,-42
04:13:24Z.752,4ca9bf,30.161133,34.172543,30825,7327,KGL9268,-11840,351.4,246,186,1013,32000,2,,-42
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Mer 04 Nov 2015 09:18

 Re: Disparition d'un avion de Kogalymavia au-dessus du Sinaï
MessagePosté: Mer 04 Nov 2015 09:18 
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Principicule de Taxiway
Principicule de Taxiway

Inscription: Dim 29 Nov 2009 23:53
C'est la dernière mouture disponible sur flightradar24, ne veut pas dire qu'elle refléte les données exactes du vol.
Il y aura sans doute d'autres données plus affinées


  
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Mer 04 Nov 2015 09:35

 Re: Disparition d'un avion de Kogalymavia au-dessus du Sinaï
MessagePosté: Mer 04 Nov 2015 09:35 
svp, pour la lisibilité du forum, ne collez pas des données brutes, et ne les citez pas dans leur intégralité!
Le fichier csv (colonnes séparées par des virgules) est disponible sur le site de flightradar24. Si votre connexion ne permet pas de télécharger le fichier, il y a peu de chance que vous arriviez à ouvrir crash-aerien maintenant que les données y sont collées...
http://blog.hub.fr24.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/7K9268ExtModeSdecoded.csv


  
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Mer 04 Nov 2015 09:52

 Re: Disparition d'un avion de Kogalymavia au-dessus du Sinaï
MessagePosté: Mer 04 Nov 2015 09:52 
bnyswave a écrit:
bismuth a écrit:

Ca fait partie du logo le trait blanc en haut à droite du T de METROJET?

Car cette trace est à l'endroit exact de la rupture que l'on voit sur les images des débris... Rupture qui rejoint en ligne droite l'endroit "sale" ?


Je vous avoue que j'ai la même interrogation depuis quelques heures... malgré tout, la compagnie semble si sûre de "l’événement extérieur"

Quelqu'un sait à propos de ce "trait blanc", ou est ce totalement farfelu?

Il faut se dire que l'avion est inspecté visuellement par les pilotes avant chaque décollage alors s'il y avait une fissure de cette taille visible sur la dérive, depuis plusieurs jours, cela ne leur aurait pas échappé!
De plus, il est raisonnable de penser que la cassure/pliure de la dérive résulte davantage du choc de la partie arrière avec le sol et qu'elle ne s'est donc pas produite en vol (et qu'elle n'est donc pas à l'origine du crash).


  
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Mer 04 Nov 2015 10:32

 Re: Disparition d'un avion de Kogalymavia au-dessus du Sinaï
MessagePosté: Mer 04 Nov 2015 10:32 
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Gonfleur d'Hélice
Gonfleur d'Hélice

Inscription: Lun 29 Aoû 2011 19:26
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rom1plane a écrit:
De plus, il est raisonnable de penser que la cassure/pliure de la dérive résulte davantage du choc de la partie arrière avec le sol et qu'elle ne s'est donc pas produite en vol (et qu'elle n'est donc pas à l'origine du crash).

Oui c'est le longeron de la dérive qui a cédé à l'impact au sol et le capot de bord d'attaque ont suivies en cédant au niveau de leur assemblage riveté ou vissé.
La dérive est en place elle n'a donc pas été arrachée en vol mais seulement à l'impact au sol...

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Mer 04 Nov 2015 10:42

 Re: Disparition d'un avion de Kogalymavia au-dessus du Sinaï
MessagePosté: Mer 04 Nov 2015 10:42 
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Gonfleur d'Hélice
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Inscription: Dim 06 Jan 2008 07:47
Localisation: St Mamoudzou-de-la-Réunion s/Moselle
Sword a écrit:
rom1plane a écrit:
De plus, il est raisonnable de penser que la cassure/pliure de la dérive résulte davantage du choc de la partie arrière avec le sol et qu'elle ne s'est donc pas produite en vol (et qu'elle n'est donc pas à l'origine du crash).

Oui c'est le longeron de la dérive qui a cédé à l'impact au sol et le capot de bord d'attaque ont suivies en cédant au niveau de leur assemblage riveté ou vissé.
La dérive est en place elle n'a donc pas été arrachée en vol mais seulement à l'impact au sol...

Aaaahhh... Retour de la Nov'Langue, avec prise à témoin de Descartes! (Laissons le tranquille, il est témoin de la défense dans de nombreuses affaires actuelles...) :mrgreen:
Allons... Pas un peu tôt pour le supputer (ex-Nov'Langue), tout autant que celle de penser (et j'en suis) qu'elle s'est détachée sous le souffle de "je ne sais quoi"? :?:

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Mer 04 Nov 2015 10:58

 Re: Disparition d'un avion de Kogalymavia au-dessus du Sinaï
MessagePosté: Mer 04 Nov 2015 10:58 
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Amiral de l'Air
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Inscription: Mer 03 Juin 2009 15:15
Localisation: Près de Morlaix-Ploujean (LFRU)
Source: The Telegraph.

Citation:

Les tests ne montrent pas de résidus d'explosifs sur les corps.

Notre correspondant Roland Oliphant à Saint-Pétersbourg écrit:

Des tests préliminaires sur les corps retrouvés sur le lieu de l'accident n'ont pas révélé de traces d'explosifs, a révélé une agence de nouvelles russe.

"Des tests préliminaires ne révèlent pas de traces d'explosifs sur les corps des personnes tuées", a déclaré une source russe du centre qui a réaliser des tests médico-légales sur les restes a communiqué Tass tard la nuit dernière.

Un expert égyptien séparément, a déclaré que les corps n'ont montré "aucun signe d'impact externe", a déclaré l'agence.

Si cela est vrai, les résultats semblent soutenir - mais en aucun cas prouver - la théorie que l'Airbus A321 a été détruit par une sorte de défaillance structurelle ou mécanique, plutôt qu'une bombe.

Les commentaires de la source égyptienne apparaissent également saper les affirmations des cadres de Metrojet affirmant que seule une influence "externe" sur l'avion l'aurait fait s'écraser.


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Mer 04 Nov 2015 11:00

 Re: Disparition d'un avion de Kogalymavia au-dessus du Sinaï
MessagePosté: Mer 04 Nov 2015 11:00 
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Gonfleur d'Hélice
Gonfleur d'Hélice

Inscription: Lun 29 Aoû 2011 19:26
Localisation: France Nord-Ouest
TripleSept a écrit:
Allons... Pas un peu tôt pour le supputer (ex-Nov'Langue), tout autant que celle de penser (et j'en suis) qu'elle s'est détachée sous le souffle de "je ne sais quoi"? :?:

On ne peut que constater que l’appareil s'est déstructuré en vol, vraisemblablement par une perte de la symétrie et dépassement de la résistance structurelle.
La présence de trace d'explosif externe ou interne n'est pas difficile, puisque l'ensemble de l'avion est en gros récupérable.
Si trace d’explosif; il sera facile d'expliquer cette déstructuration.
Si pas de trace; ce sera plus compliqué, rupture d'un élément ou défaillance de système ?
Comme pour le DC10 du Ténéré, mais d'autres aussi, la cellule fragmentée redescend sous son propre poids à différentes vitesses suivant la caractéristique aérodynamique des morceaux.
Ceci se termine par un vitesse d'impact également plus ou moins importante ou d'autres efforts de compression s'appliquent mais n'ont rien à voir avec ceux qui ont déstructurés l'avion.
C'est la difficulté de l’enquête, de dissocier les cassures et déformations de l'arrivée au sol, de celles provoquées par le perte de contrôle.
Parfois, c'est quasiment impossible tellement le métal est torturé et l'incendie aussi peut éliminer toutes possibilité.
C'est pour quoi il est tout a fait prématuré de supputer tel ou tel trou ici ou là, telle déchirure ici ou là, il n'y a que l'analyse microscopique de la cassure qui peut indiquer la direction de l'effort subi par le métal ou autre.

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Mer 04 Nov 2015 11:06

 Re: Disparition d'un avion de Kogalymavia au-dessus du Sinaï
MessagePosté: Mer 04 Nov 2015 11:06 
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Commandant des Nuages
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Inscription: Sam 29 Juin 2013 17:16
Localisation: Proche LFDH
Citation:
Les autorités égyptiennes ont annoncé la version principale des causes du crash de l’avion russe, qui est une défaillance technique à bord. Cette déclaration a été faite par le représentant officiel du gouvernement égyptien Houssam al-Kouveich.

«Les satellites artificiels russes et américains ont exclu la possibilité d’un acte terroriste à l’origine de la catastrophe. Tous les circonstances témoignent du fait que l’avion s’est écrasé suite à une défaillance technique à l’intérieur», a déclaré le responsable à la chaîne Al-Hayat.

https://francais.rt.com/international/9 ... sie-egypte

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Mer 04 Nov 2015 11:08

 Re: Disparition d'un avion de Kogalymavia au-dessus du Sinaï
MessagePosté: Mer 04 Nov 2015 11:08 
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Gonfleur d'Hélice
Gonfleur d'Hélice
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Inscription: Mar 18 Avr 2006 23:02
Localisation: Salon-de-Provence
Citation:
Oui c'est le longeron de la dérive qui a cédé à l'impact au sol ...


En plus quand on voit ce que c'est ,c'est pas étonnant!

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Mer 04 Nov 2015 11:14

 Re: Disparition d'un avion de Kogalymavia au-dessus du Sinaï
MessagePosté: Mer 04 Nov 2015 11:14 
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Amiral de l'Air
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Inscription: Mer 03 Juin 2009 15:15
Localisation: Près de Morlaix-Ploujean (LFRU)
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Mer 04 Nov 2015 11:14

 Re: Disparition d'un avion de Kogalymavia au-dessus du Sinaï
MessagePosté: Mer 04 Nov 2015 11:14 
Sword a écrit:
Si trace d’explosif; il sera facile d'expliquer cette déstructuration.
Si pas de trace; ce sera plus compliqué, rupture d'un élément ou défaillance de système ?

Reste l'hypothèse pas complètement écartée d'une collision en vol avec un drone qui devrait être infirmée/confirmée en fonction des éléments extérieurs retrouvés (ou pas) dans les débris.


  
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